Talk:Main Page
> wiki for rebuilding society
> hosted on the internet
hello everyone! dragon here. this seems like a nice concept so im throwing up a talk page.
wanted to suggest a few things. should we include how-to pages? since this is a civilization rebuilder wiki, it seems relevant, and i havent seen any. i dont want to get out of hand on the simpler pages by going in detail on how to make, say, a bone burnisher on the bone page.
How-Tos?[edit source]
Should we include how-to sections in their relevant pages, or have them as additional pages so that we can pull from unrelated pages and relate the topics?
I think how-to instructions is an absolute necessity in at least some capacity.
-fixedsyslabs
The "How-To" section on the pages would be interesting, and I think the entire wiki should have "chapters" or sections based on the level of development required by the civilization to develop a technology.
It would be even more appropriate to cover the basics/essentials in the early chapters (such as shelter, food, water, healthcare...) and the more advanced aspects (like: nuclear power, aircraft, and other key elements related to heavy industry) in the later chapters according to their prerequisites. To support my point: you first need to know how to make fire to solve your immediate problems before harnessing hydropower to perform mechanical tasks, and then generating electricity, for example. Moreover electricity isn't a prerequisite for industry if you can directly use hydropower or steam. (I don't know if that's clear enough.)
If the person who will, perhaps tomorrow, have to rebuild civilization by hand must find the tools necessary for their progress alone in a jumble of information, the initial objective of this project may not be achieved.
Variolus
Yes, really this is about the How-Tos. There are pages on materials, but they are to be ingredients for the various how-to guides. Ideally, even the material pages would include, or at least link to pages on how to acquire them.
-Jehan
Perhaps the creation of a system that is based on the needs that must be met by the the reader. As once basic survival is acheived then quality of life should be a focus to a point, then as the QoL needs are met the focus again shifts to understanding the why for themselves so that the Wiki remains a tool and not a crutch?
-Mathematician
I believe How-to's should be included in all relevant articles and formatted as sections titled "Materials used" and "Crafting instructions" as described in the wiki's manual of style (https://wikiciv.org/index.php/Wikiciv:Manual_of_style)
-Gelsoup
Adding a little more in here, true knowledge, the crucial stuff for re-developing a civilization, isn't only made from theoretical information, like turning through a book, you need some sort of practical know-how. No matter how much you describe how to nail two planks together, a step-by-step would still be very useful, if not as useful.
I also think some sort of "dependency system" would be required, like 'You need to know basic sewing and tailoring to make your own clothes', there is no need for someone to try to re-create electronic computer systems if they don't even have a basic hold on crucial stuff like farming, or health care.
-Comp nerd
Unfortunately, theoretical information is all we can really provide as a wiki. All the more reason to make information as clear, practical, and accessible as possible.
As for dependencies, prerequisites are handled in the "Materials used" section and technologies dependant on the subject are placed in the "Dependencies" section. e.g "Brick" would have "Clay" in its "Materials used" section and "Clay" would have "Brick" in its "Dependencies" section. This way anyone wanting to make a specific technology could follow a chain of links in "Materials used" sections and determine every antecedent technology and the order in which to pursue them. Furthermore they would have some idea of what to do with that technology from the "Dependencies" section.
I think this is the most streamlined way of doing things; There's not much one can do to "order" a wiki, so even attempting to put things chronologically would be in vain. This egts the best result with the least fluff
-Gelsoup
Should we include self-descriptive language in our articles?[edit source]
Should we include language like "we use XYZ for ABC in recent times" in our articles? I think it would be nice to, in case civilization does go down, at least give people in the future a little taste of what we used to do, like and admire, like "Smartphones are a very big part of most people's life", just to preserve a little of history, as well to give some personality and context to the article
I don't think we should use self-descriptive language, it can becoming damaging to objectivity. survivors using this information might end up essentially cargo culting the old days, rather than using this knowledge to create something that works well for them in their situation.
that's just my opinion, though.
-Michael B.
I believe that self-descriptive language would add unnecessary clutter to the wiki. Furthermore, it would be unlikely for this wiki to be the only surviving information from us, and this cultural context (self-descriptive language) could be gathered from other sources. If anything of this nature is added, it should be in a isolated section, titled cultural relevance or something similar.
-Osborn Garcia
How are we doing in other languages besides English?[edit source]
Hey, just wanted to check if translation of common pages was being done, and to thank those who have indeed started that process!
-Mathematician
I'd say the "main" languages (mandarin chinese, hindi, spanish, french, arab) would be very useful, plus any languages users would be keen to translate to of course :)
-Sargeras
The way other wikis have done this is by making English the main wiki, then having automatic translations into other versions. Machine translation has gotten pretty good so this is a good option I think.
Unless there is no way for the machine to work especially if it needs internet.
-eixcosxsinxi
Download whole wiki option[edit source]
Could you please add option to download all articles in some searchable form, so people can have whole wiki in offline form on their devices? This wiki is supposed to help rebuild civ, so we should assume internet is not available in such case or it could be also used in remote/internet-free settings.
Put the articles in their respective columns[edit source]
It would make it much better on the eyes if the main page had categories like the all metals being put into materials section and chemicals under chemistry
-Crackershot
Use of media to guide our contents[edit source]
With the aims and goals of this entire project, I think it might be a good idea to look into modern society building fiction for ideas on what to include.
Authors tend to have a creativity and worldbuilding perfectionism that help them think of societal fundamentals that we may miss. Especially in the early stages.
So it would probably be a good idea to use those works as a solid baseline, and yes I have Dr Stone in mind when I'm saying this.
Dictionary[edit source]
Would it be wise to add a dictionary sub-section so that people with different languages will have a common place to go to be able to communicate? I imagine if this wiki is necessary, the internet will probably be down and it will be difficult to translate languages without the internet.
Metal working and pottery topics[edit source]
I apprenticed with both a master blacksmith, and a tool and die machinist. I also spent time with the Neo-Tribal Metalsmiths, where we would make things with simple (often primitive) equipment. I can start working on writing this up, but I am not sure how to get started with the group.
For fun, you might want to take a look at Clickspring's YouTube channel on the Antikythera Fragments <https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZioPDnFPNsGnUXuZScwn6Ackf6LGILCa> -- where he not only builds a replica of the Antikythera Mechanism <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRXI9KLImC4&list=PLZioPDnFPNsHnyxfygxA0to4RXv4_jDU2>, but also the tools which could have been used to build it. This includes case-hardening mild steel, hand-cutting your own files, making spade drill bits, making a bow-drill, making and using a simple precision lathe, and soft soldering techniques. These are a great source of information. I can also add some info on building different types of forges, but my preferred type is charcoal with a hand-crank blower.
I also grew up in a family of potters, and my own work used the sgraffito carving technique, although my mother painted. Since sgraffito is so time-consuming, I typically bothered to dig my own clay, and sometimes pit-fire them. There is a large group of potters in Mata Ortiz, Mexico, who have allowed their techniques to be videotaped. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtFTd8UIaDw for example. Depending on how much information you would like fleshed out, I could also add or comment on these techniques.
Please add whatever you can. Create a page titled common tools or something. Make that the main page where you talk about what the main ideas are along with adding terms like bow-drill and stuff. You can then make those words be links to other pages that you can create.
-eixcosxsinxi